Risk Matters Podcast | Renewable energy and insurance

Episode 2

1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,480
Welcome to Risk Matters,

2
00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:02,520
the insurance podcast

3
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:03,680
brought to you by DWF

4
00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:04,680
and your global guide

5
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:05,520
to the latest trends

6
00:00:05,520 --> 00:00:06,800
and issues in the insurance

7
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:08,640
and reinsurance industry.

8
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:09,120
Join us

9
00:00:09,120 --> 00:00:10,600
as we explore topical issues,

10
00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:11,720
emerging technologies,

11
00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:12,960
and the innovative strategies

12
00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:14,400
that are shaping the global future

13
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:15,880
of insurance.

14
00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:20,760
Welcome

15
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:21,640
to Risk Matters,

16
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,120
the insurance podcast from DWF.

17
00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,200
Today we'll be talking about

18
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,280
renewable energy insurance.

19
00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:28,000
I am Franco

20
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,320
D'Andrea, a partner in the DWF

21
00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,120
Global Risk Team based in London.

22
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,080
I'm joined here with Gary Walkling,

23
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,680
a fellow partner in the DWF

24
00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:36,880
Global Risk Team. Hello, Gary.

25
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:37,720
Hi, Franco.

26
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:38,400
And we're joined today

27
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,680
with a very special guest, Adam Reed,

28
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,240
who is the Global Leader

29
00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,480
for Offshore Renewables and Upstream Energy

30
00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:47,120
at Allianz Commercial. Welcome, Adam.

31
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,800
I'm happy to be here. Thanks.

32
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,960
I'd like to start with an opening quote.

33
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,160
I just want to thank you all

34
00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:53,640
for all you're willing to do,

35
00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:55,120
and particularly the private companies

36
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,200
who are stepping up.

37
00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,680
And it's big time where stepping up.

38
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,680
We're talking billions of dollars.

39
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:01,480
We're not just talking

40
00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:02,320
a little bit of money.

41
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,160
We're talking billions.

42
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:04,680
And I think

43
00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,280
we're going to get a lot done.

44
00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:06,800
And I can't

45
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:07,600
tell you the last time

46
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,520
I've been this excited about something

47
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:10,640
we're about to do,

48
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,360
because I think we can change,

49
00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,440
literally begin to change the nature

50
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,320
of how we generate industry.

51
00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:18,360
Excuse me? Generate energy.

52
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,200
And the industry is stepping up.

53
00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:21,440
Now, that,

54
00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:22,040
of course, was

55
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,040
President Biden on the 23rd of June, 2022

56
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:26,720
at a meeting of the federal state

57
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,280
Offshore Wind Implementation Partnership.

58
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:30,000
So, Adam,

59
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:30,840
with that in mind, is

60
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:31,760
President Biden right

61
00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:32,800
to be so excited

62
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,920
about the future of offshore wind?

63
00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:35,280
Yeah,

64
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:35,800
I mean,

65
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,320
I think everybody should be excited

66
00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:38,280
about offshore wind.

67
00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:39,320
You know,

68
00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:40,840
it's really

69
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:42,720
one of the most transformational

70
00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,720
kind of things, around,

71
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,920
supply of energy for,

72
00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,240
you know, the world, right?

73
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,640
I mean,

74
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:52,680
at a time when everybody's

75
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,680
focused on energy security,

76
00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,120
and having their own source of power,

77
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,320
you know, it's something that

78
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,680
goes a long way towards that, right?

79
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:02,880
And so, yeah.

80
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:03,280
And you seen it

81
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,840
particularly in, in the States

82
00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,560
where they're very ambitious targets.

83
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:07,560
Is that something that you are

84
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:08,640
conscious of in your role?

85
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:11,360
conscious of it?

86
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:11,640
Yeah.

87
00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:14,640
I mean, the US, it's

88
00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,320
a bit challenging as far as offshore renewables goes.

89
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,200
Certainly we've seen shortages in terms

90
00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:23,280
of, you know, vessels.

91
00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,280
You've now got the Jones Act complications

92
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,720
and also exposure to cat risk,

93
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,080
which perhaps we haven't had in Europe.

94
00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:34,800
Yeah.

95
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:35,480
but, you know,

96
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:36,880
there's also a lot of opportunity there.

97
00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,320
So it's definitely an area

98
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:40,920
that we're keen on and,

99
00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:42,880
and you know, looking at closely.

100
00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:44,040
Yeah. Adam.

101
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:44,960
So outside of the US

102
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,080
where some of the other bigger

103
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,120
areas for geographical growth

104
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,480
as far as offshore wind goes,

105
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,920
Europe has a huge amount of installed

106
00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:53,640
capacity, right?

107
00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:57,360
I mean, that was the starting point for,

108
00:02:58,440 --> 00:02:59,200
a lot of the offshore

109
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,000
wind farm developments.

110
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,880
they've been around for

111
00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:03,800
quite a while now.

112
00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,280
I think more recently,

113
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:07,600
you know,

114
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,400
we've seen a lot of growth in Asia,

115
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,520
particularly, Taiwan and then,

116
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,640
Japan, Korea coming up there a bit,

117
00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:17,880
maybe a bit further back.

118
00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:18,760
And then, yeah,

119
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,440
China has got huge, targets

120
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,040
for offshore wind

121
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,120
and actually

122
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,040
has been installing some of the,

123
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,800
the largest or the largest turbines that,

124
00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:29,160
you know,

125
00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,040
we've seen anywhere in the world.

126
00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:33,520
so those areas definitely.

127
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:34,680
But again, you know,

128
00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,680
similarly to the US, you've got that CAT

129
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,320
element of exposure as well, which,

130
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:40,680
you know,

131
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,480
we don't have that so much in Europe.

132
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,520
So, and stepping back from

133
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:45,760
maybe some of the bigger picture

134
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,480
on a more personal,

135
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:48,360
bit can you tell us a bit

136
00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:49,160
about your,

137
00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:50,240
route into the industry

138
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:50,800
and how you became

139
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,680
a renewable energy underwriter?

140
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,560
Yeah. For sure.

141
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:55,320
so, yeah,

142
00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,280
started out in property actually.

143
00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,320
Probably, quite a long time ago now.

144
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:02,480
Yeah.

145
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,120
Moved into upstream about 15 years ago.

146
00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:08,520
Something like that.

147
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,040
And, at that time, you know,

148
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,120
offshore renewables

149
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,120
wasn't really a thing.

150
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,360
learned a lot, about the kind of marine

151
00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:19,400
type exposures

152
00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,080
that you have in, in upstream

153
00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:22,440
oil and gas.

154
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,480
And then,

155
00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:24,720
you know, obviously,

156
00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:25,680
seeing the synergies

157
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,480
between that kind of risk

158
00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:28,640
and the risks that you see

159
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,480
in offshore wind.

160
00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:31,920
When the opportunity came up

161
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,720
to get involved in that,

162
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,160
then it was a natural fit.

163
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,360
And I think,

164
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:37,160
you know, we're seeing

165
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,920
that more broadly across the insurance

166
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:41,080
market as well.

167
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,680
There's a lot of,

168
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,400
crossover from individuals.

169
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,680
And also just general principles.

170
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,480
So,

171
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,360
I think one of the themes of,

172
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:53,360
that we wanted to draw out

173
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,120
in during this podcast,

174
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,120
and hopefully we'll draw out

175
00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:57,880
in the course of the discussion, is

176
00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,760
whether we are all, as an industry,

177
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:00,720
learning the lessons

178
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:01,920
that have already been learnt

179
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:02,520
from things

180
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:03,720
like oil and gas

181
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:04,680
or the marine market

182
00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,280
or the property market.

183
00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:07,760
because it seems to us

184
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:08,920
from the outside as service

185
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,200
providers to the industry that,

186
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:12,040
there's a lot of

187
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:12,840
knowledge base,

188
00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:16,160
both within the renewables market industry,

189
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,720
but also within the insurance market as well.

190
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,720
And just open question

191
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:22,880
as to whether we

192
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,200
could be doing more to establish

193
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:26,240
and to overlap

194
00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,280
and to share knowledge

195
00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:29,000
for lessons, as I say

196
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,800
that have been learned before, perhaps.

197
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,720
People often say, talk about kind of,

198
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,720
you know, synergies in terms of that

199
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:37,480
element, right.

200
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,240
Exposure and risk.

201
00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:40,120
I think it's

202
00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,840
a very different proposition

203
00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:43,400
insuring a wind farm

204
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,640
compared to an oil and gas, asset.

205
00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:47,720
Yeah.

206
00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:48,600
You know, at the moment

207
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:49,680
most of the risk in offshore

208
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,240
wind is construction. Yeah.

209
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:52,680
And you're essentially

210
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,680
repeating the same process 100 times.

211
00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,840
Say on average. Right.

212
00:05:57,840 --> 00:05:59,880
Whereas with upstream oil and gas

213
00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:01,360
it's typically

214
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,240
one asset or a couple of assets.

215
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,280
So you know from a

216
00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:07,440
from a risk perspective, yes.

217
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:08,920
You've got the marine element

218
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,280
and you know, you've got marine

219
00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:11,680
warranty surveyors and yeah,

220
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,160
whatever else to to help you with that.

221
00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:16,800
But also, you know

222
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,720
the the process and the exposure is,

223
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:19,840
is quite different.

224
00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:22,880
It's very, it's a lot of attritional

225
00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,120
and you don't have so much that kind

226
00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,120
of peaky exposure like you have

227
00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:30,920
with

228
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:31,800
with the oil and gas.

229
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:33,840
But there are certainly things

230
00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:36,040
that you can take, right?

231
00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:36,680
So, yeah,

232
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:37,920
like I said, you know, the,

233
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,080
the marine warranty part,

234
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,200
something that's,

235
00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:42,000
that's really,

236
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:43,760
really important to get that right.

237
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,320
Yeah.

238
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,320
I think offshore wind, you know,

239
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,160
in maybe infancy,

240
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,600
if you want to call it that.

241
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:52,680
There probably wasn't enough

242
00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,560
focus on that, that side of things.

243
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:57,240
Yeah.

244
00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:58,080
That kind of third

245
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,040
party review and attendance and agreement

246
00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,480
to the kind of the processes

247
00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:05,840
that that they were going to go through.

248
00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:07,360
Yeah.

249
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,600
so that definitely is, is vital.

250
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:10,600
I mean, I think just

251
00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,000
looking more kind of from a

252
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:14,960
technological perspective.

253
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,040
Upstream oil and gas

254
00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,880
from a, you know, construction wise,

255
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,880
it's benefitted a lot from codes

256
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,040
and standardisation of the assets.

257
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,000
Yeah.

258
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,920
And offshore wind,

259
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,160
you know, it's probably the opposite

260
00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:31,960
end of the scale

261
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:32,880
really a lot of the time

262
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,880
is that even for fixed foundation

263
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,400
offshore wind.

264
00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:39,920
yes, I would say so.

265
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,960
I mean, you know, it's incredibly common

266
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,040
from a kind of project perspective.

267
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:48,280
Yeah.

268
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,280
When you get something in

269
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,200
a lot of the times, the turbines

270
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,640
that are going to be used.

271
00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,000
Haven’t passed type cert yet.

272
00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,080
So in other words,

273
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,560
they're not a proven design effectively

274
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:02,200
is what that means.

275
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,040
So you've still got another 18 months

276
00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,080
where you're going from the test

277
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,320
turbines installed to, okay,

278
00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,040
you can actually.

279
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,400
Well, you can use it

280
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,240
if it's not type certified, right. In theory.

281
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:16,840
But you wouldn't

282
00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,360
want to from an insurance perspective.

283
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:19,760
Right.

284
00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:20,960
So, you know,

285
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:21,600
there are a lot of

286
00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:22,920
elements like that where,

287
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:25,640
you know,

288
00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,360
it's kind of almost

289
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:28,840
pre industrialised, right.

290
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,680
Because of this kind of turbine

291
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:32,440
arms race,

292
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:33,680
if you want to call it that, in terms

293
00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:34,840
of, you know,

294
00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:35,760
it's got to be bigger

295
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,160
and maybe not

296
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:38,600
necessarily better in all cases,

297
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:39,840
but definitely bigger.

298
00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:40,320
Yeah.

299
00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:43,600
And you know, that does create

300
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,880
a huge amount of technological risk.

301
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:47,240
Yeah.

302
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,720
You know, from an insurance perspective,

303
00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,720
maybe insurers aren't necessarily

304
00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:54,400
picking that up

305
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:55,680
as far as the turbine is concerned,

306
00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:56,720
because a lot of the times it's

307
00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,200
covered under, warranty.

308
00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:58,800
Yeah.

309
00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,280
Under the turbine supply agreement. Yeah.

310
00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,360
But I mean, you know,

311
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:04,440
if you look at some of the kind

312
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:05,000
of published

313
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,000
financials of some of those suppliers,

314
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,400
you see, you know

315
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,320
large negatives against their their earnings

316
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,560
from exactly that. Yeah.

317
00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:17,200
Having to meet those,

318
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:19,800
those requirements for the warranties

319
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,120
they’ve given.

320
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,640
For turbines that,

321
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:23,800
you know, haven't

322
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,880
necessarily worked as intended.

323
00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:26,280
Yeah.

324
00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,920
So, you know, I think

325
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,400
there are some schools

326
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,360
of thought that say,

327
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,160
maybe let the technology bed in.

328
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:37,960
Yeah, a bit more.

329
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,120
And that maybe in itself

330
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,880
will ensure that kind of long term

331
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,440
profitability of some of these suppliers.

332
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:45,840
Yeah.

333
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:49,440
You know, nobody

334
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,280
necessarily wants to be the first one

335
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:52,320
to do that

336
00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,240
because the other company

337
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,680
will still be making a bigger one. Right?

338
00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:57,360
So yeah.

339
00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,160
Yeah, it's it's a difficult one,

340
00:09:59,160 --> 00:09:59,520
you know,

341
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,520
in a competitive environment.

342
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,080
But you know,

343
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,560
you can certainly see the benefits of it

344
00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:06,920
when you see

345
00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:08,000
how some of these companies

346
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,000
have struggled financially.

347
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,320
Yeah. Of course, of course.

348
00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:10,840
Adam,

349
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,440
how do you go about underwriting a risk like that,

350
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:14,760
or rating a risk like that

351
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:15,360
where you don't have

352
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:16,440
the same historical data

353
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:17,080
that you perhaps do in

354
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:18,160
traditional oil and gas?

355
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:21,000
Yeah.

356
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,080
I mean, I don't want to give away

357
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,080
too many trade secrets right.

358
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,720
But, for us,

359
00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,760
we always focus very heavily

360
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:30,880
on the risk

361
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,000
engineering side of things.

362
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,000
So, you know, we,

363
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,080
have actually,

364
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:38,440
a large number of engineers

365
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,040
across different technology.

366
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,880
So whether it's electrical

367
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,160
or turbines or, master mariners.

368
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,120
So, you know,

369
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:48,840
we try to take

370
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:49,800
as much from

371
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,280
the things that we've done as possible

372
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,720
and then also lean on that expertise

373
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,880
to kind of assess the almost unknown

374
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,120
elements of, of the risk, right, to,

375
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,120
to try and, to try and get to

376
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,560
what we hope is an accurate rate.

377
00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:09,120
Adam, you mentioned,

378
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,240
earlier on about marine

379
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:11,120
warranty surveyors,

380
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:11,480
and obviously

381
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,200
they must be a critical part of it,

382
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,800
but we've seen them for many years

383
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,280
in the oil and gas industry.

384
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,640
So I thought maybe a bit of worth

385
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:20,560
spending a little bit of time

386
00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,720
just exploring that and whether.

387
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,800
Yeah, utilise correctly in renewables.

388
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,520
So Gary, in terms of

389
00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,160
historically, what has been their role

390
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:29,160
on, on any given,

391
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:30,680
say, oil and gas projects.

392
00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:30,960
Yeah.

393
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,160
So I think as Adam said,

394
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,120
an MWS

395
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,520
will give you independent

396
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,040
expert third party approval

397
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:38,240
things in advance.

398
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,600
but then also they'll attend

399
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,240
certain high risk, high value activities.

400
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,840
and issue certificates of

401
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:46,680
of acceptance when those, those are done.

402
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,080
My own view is that, I mean,

403
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:50,640
you'll barely see an oil and gas project

404
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,160
without some MWS involvement.

405
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,320
But my own view is that they could

406
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,160
they could certainly be used more in oil

407
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:57,560
and gas, and I don't know if that is.

408
00:11:57,560 --> 00:11:59,520
That tallies with your,

409
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:00,360
experience in renewables.

410
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,520
Adam.

411
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:03,240
Yeah.

412
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,880
I mean, I think, you know,

413
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,200
from my perspective,

414
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:08,120
I guess going back a bit

415
00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:09,440
to my kind of background,

416
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,160
you know, I've over the years,

417
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:12,000
you know, been involved

418
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,400
in huge numbers of offshore

419
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:15,840
oil and gas construction projects. Right?

420
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,960
So, you know, that

421
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,960
that third party oversight element,

422
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,200
you know, it is incredibly important.

423
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,800
It's it's vital really.

424
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,800
It's probably,

425
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,280
one of the most important clauses

426
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,120
to get right.

427
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:32,040
I think,

428
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,480
whether it's exactly what activities or,

429
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,040
you know, the amount of attendance or,

430
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:39,360
you know what your

431
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,400
review, approving, COAing.

432
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,400
Like you say, in renewables, it hadn't

433
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,360
maybe had as much of a profile.

434
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:48,800
And I think,

435
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:49,520
you know, in terms of

436
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,600
also how it was expressed,

437
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,400
it was maybe not as precise as it

438
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:54,600
could have, should have been.

439
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,120
Implications of breach weren't

440
00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,040
always clear

441
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:00,920
or were clear

442
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:01,800
that there weren't as many

443
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:02,440
as there should be.

444
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:03,640
Not an uncommon problem.

445
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,600
Yeah.

446
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,040
So, yeah, I mean, I think, you know,

447
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:09,880
the Joint Natural Resources Committee actually

448
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,680
has done a significant amount

449
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,240
on that. Yeah.

450
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,240
issuing the standardised scope of work,

451
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:16,920
which I think we're on to

452
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,800
the second iteration of now,

453
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,240
which has borrowed a lot

454
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,920
from the one that was established,

455
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,160
you know, for the oil and gas, projects,

456
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,200
but also kind of adapting it

457
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:29,400
obviously for,

458
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:30,360
for renewables

459
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,360
and for the different exposures there,

460
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,360
just kind of from a

461
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,120
maybe a client or the kind of process

462
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:40,160
perspective.

463
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:40,920
What we do

464
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,680
see definitely in renewables is firstly,

465
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:48,200
the MWS being involved a lot later in

466
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:50,320
the process, so,

467
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,000
almost,

468
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,560
I think it would benefit clients too,

469
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:57,120
you know, for them to have the MWS

470
00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:57,840
to have more time

471
00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:58,760
to kind of do

472
00:13:58,760 --> 00:13:59,920
all the document reviews

473
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:01,760
and all of that kind of thing.

474
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,640
We've heard stories of,

475
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:04,240
you know, people

476
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,000
being sent stuff and told,

477
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,880
oh, by the way, load out is, you know,

478
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,320
happening in fact,

479
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,120
five minutes yesterday or something.

480
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:13,680
which is, you know, it's not.

481
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:15,320
Yeah. Helpful. Right.

482
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:16,680
And, you know, ultimately

483
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:18,000
the whole point of it is safe

484
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,000
delivery of the project, you know, so

485
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:22,400
the more you can do

486
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,960
to get the best chance of that,

487
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:25,960
the better.

488
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,280
And then also the other thing

489
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,280
is, you know, there seems to be,

490
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,920
almost, like a focus on the,

491
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,640
the warranty fee as

492
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:38,800
a kind of a procurement item.

493
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,080
So, you know, it's

494
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:43,200
it's a lot it's, it's

495
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:44,400
quite price

496
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,720
driven is, is the impression

497
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:47,360
that the

498
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:47,920
I've got

499
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,840
which you know, insurers

500
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,840
are the ones that effectively,

501
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,760
pave, right? Or contribute.

502
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:56,600
Yeah.

503
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:57,880
So the insured will pay it

504
00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,920
and then insurers will contribute

505
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:02,280
an amount from the premium.

506
00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:03,720
You know for that to get done.

507
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,080
So,

508
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,560
yeah, a lot of the times that amount

509
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:08,520
that is contributed from

510
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,080
the premium is more than enough.

511
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:11,560
Yeah.

512
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:12,480
For warranties

513
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,200
it's nice to get a decent worthwhile

514
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,600
price right?

515
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,600
So I think from our perspective,

516
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,200
you know, we feel like it should be

517
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:22,960
much more about

518
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,680
who is the best person for the job.

519
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:26,360
Yeah.

520
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:27,840
Rather than who you can

521
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,360
maybe deliver it for,

522
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,880
yeah, maybe, the most competitive price.

523
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:34,160
Right.

524
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,880
It should be more about quality and,

525
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:39,640
ability to,

526
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:40,560
to meet

527
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,240
the scope with people

528
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,600
that have the right qualifications. Yeah.

529
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,240
Adam, when did you first notice

530
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,600
a step change in the focus on renewables

531
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:49,920
and going back to Franco's

532
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,480
earlier quote from President Biden,

533
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,360
if politicians always been as excited

534
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,360
about this technology?

535
00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,240
I wouldn't say so necessarily.

536
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,200
No.

537
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:03,160
I think it varies

538
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,040
country to country, really.

539
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:06,480
you know,

540
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,320
I think the offshore wind industry

541
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,320
does really need a huge amount of,

542
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,120
kind of coordination at government level,

543
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,120
whether it's, you know, kind of licensing

544
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,040
or routes,

545
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,320
for grids or even grid investment.

546
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,120
Cross-border interconnection

547
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,600
between power grids as well,

548
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:29,280
because, you know,

549
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,400
you can't just pick up the electricity

550
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,000
and carry it somewhere else

551
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,640
like you can with oil and gas. Right.

552
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:37,680
Yeah.

553
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,120
Or, you know,

554
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:39,920
battery storage,

555
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:40,960
all of those kinds of things.

556
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:41,160
Right.

557
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,160
So, so it covers a lot of,

558
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,480
of topics that need,

559
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,320
political engagement.

560
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,320
Right.

561
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:52,840
I think in terms of kind of

562
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,840
industry growth,

563
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,760
probably,

564
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,360
maybe the last five years, I think it's

565
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:01,840
we've seen it

566
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,840
kind of really, really take off.

567
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:06,720
And I think that's kind

568
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,720
of coincided

569
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,280
with maybe a period of,

570
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,720
political instability as well.

571
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,720
In other regions.

572
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:19,520
Yeah.

573
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,240
Which obviously has fueled

574
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:22,240
that desire for people

575
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,240
to kind of have self-sufficiency from,

576
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:27,560
from renewables.

577
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,560
But also, you know, the

578
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:31,480
the significant growth

579
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,600
that we've seen of kind of

580
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,600
climate awareness,

581
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:36,120
you know,

582
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:39,120
it's it's really coming to focus since,

583
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,080
you know, the Paris Agreement and,

584
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,320
you know, people have,

585
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,240
particularly in the

586
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,360
last maybe 2 or 3 years,

587
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,040
you know, started

588
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:50,800
it's a lot more in the kind

589
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,920
of political consciousness of

590
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,320
and the public consciousness as well,

591
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:54,560
I think.

592
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:55,240
Yeah, as well,

593
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,800
which obviously lead onto that political

594
00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:58,560
aspect as well.

595
00:17:58,560 --> 00:17:59,400
What was interesting

596
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,080
when we were putting those statistics

597
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,000
together for this,

598
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:03,720
for this podcast,

599
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,000
was almost every developed

600
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,360
economy has either 2025 or 2030

601
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,760
targets for, renewable development.

602
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:13,800
And it's just interesting

603
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,520
that there is seems to be a virtually

604
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,040
universal trend

605
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,040
at a push into the renewable industry.

606
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,160
Do you think that

607
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,000
there are any jurisdictions where, yes,

608
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,960
there are supply chain problems

609
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,560
and local manufacturing issues,

610
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:28,760
but are there any jurisdictions

611
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,120
where there is a more holistic approach

612
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:33,720
where there is that

613
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,360
those targets are being met with really

614
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:37,240
good work on the ground?

615
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:41,560
I mean, I think it's interesting

616
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,160
that a lot of countries

617
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:44,200
have 2030 targets

618
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:45,000
and they don't have anything

619
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,040
installed yet.

620
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:47,880
I think it's

621
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,880
probably important to, to note that,

622
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,360
but,

623
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:57,240
yeah, I mean, places that have good

624
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,920
local supply, I mean,

625
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,040
I think it's a big

626
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,920
it's a big issue for the industry.

627
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,360
Really, you know, outside of Europe,

628
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:10,160
the only other place that you could point

629
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,280
to probably is China.

630
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,800
You know, the US, for all of the kind of,

631
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,680
the investment the,

632
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:20,400
IRA,

633
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,080
You know, and all of that kind of stuff,

634
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,360
I think, you know, probably not enough.

635
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,960
not as much as

636
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,200
probably they should have done of

637
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,080
that has been

638
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,600
used to, to bulk up the supply chain.

639
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,560
Right. That is the that's the US,

640
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:37,960
Inflation Reduction Act.

641
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:38,440
Yeah.

642
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,280
Which, you know, provides,

643
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:40,640
you know,

644
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:41,240
kind of

645
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,200
funding through various means,

646
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,200
tax and things like that, to support,

647
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:47,440
green energy

648
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,240
growth, amongst other things.

649
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,000
So if you look at,

650
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,280
you know, the US

651
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,280
and what's resulted from that, you know,

652
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,240
there's one cable factory, you know,

653
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,240
I think in Charleston,

654
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,200
there is one

655
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:05,680
Jones Act compliant vessel

656
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,320
which has been delayed a few times.

657
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:09,040
If you,

658
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,840
see the stories of that in the press and,

659
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,120
so,

660
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:13,600
you know,

661
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,600
for a country that that has got a lot of,

662
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:17,760
you know, a significant

663
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,760
target rise,

664
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,920
it's maybe lagged a bit on,

665
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,160
on addressing some of those supply chain

666
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,160
things, whereas, you know, you look at

667
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,200
China, there is

668
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:31,960
there are a decent amount of vessels,

669
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,440
there's cable factories,

670
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,000
there's turbine supply.

671
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:38,800
And there's also,

672
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:39,200
you know, a

673
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,600
significant pace of installation as well.

674
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,640
So,

675
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,640
you know, I think,

676
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,680
yes, certainly

677
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,400
other countries have maybe lagged a bit.

678
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,880
Behind in, in terms of kind of

679
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,160
implementing those,

680
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:56,840
those key things

681
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,320
that you need to make offshore

682
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,240
wind happen.

683
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,320
And sticking with the US, Adam,

684
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:03,560
aside from some of those issues

685
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:04,160
you mentioned there,

686
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,160
are there any other particular

687
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,160
challenges with offshore wind there?

688
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,240
In the US,

689
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,160
I think they produce certainly

690
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,120
a challenge in themselves

691
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:20,080
in that

692
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,440
it means that your, cost per megawatt,

693
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,560
per megawatt hour of electricity

694
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,000
is drastically higher

695
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,320
than it is in Europe.

696
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,320
Just because the fixed costs of,

697
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,920
taking all of the components over or

698
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,360
the vessels over,

699
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:41,200
you've got to do,

700
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,440
ship to ship transfers a lot of the time.

701
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:44,880
Is that a Jones Act issue?

702
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,400
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's it's,

703
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:49,920
the vessels.

704
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:50,400
Yes.

705
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:51,360
Is a Jones Act issue

706
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,520
until that one comes out of the yard.

707
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,040
Yeah.

708
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,720
But then also, you know,

709
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,920
you can't do all of the East Coast,

710
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:01,800
US projects with,

711
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,360
you know, one vessel.

712
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:05,000
Well, one cable factory.

713
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,400
I was going okay. Yeah, yeah.

714
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,200
Or one vessel.

715
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,200
Or one vessel. Yeah.

716
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,480
So, so, yeah,

717
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:13,000
I mean,

718
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,080
it does make the fixed costs

719
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,200
a lot higher, which, you know, that

720
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,920
that potentially harms the argument.

721
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,040
Right.

722
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,040
At the ballot box, you know, it's it's,

723
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:26,920
how much I think some of

724
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,160
the ones reported in

725
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,680
the press are kind of around 135, 140 dollars.

726
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,680
Which if you compare that to UK, I mean,

727
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,040
and what's the most recent

728
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,800
one is what, 65 pounds

729
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,040
or something like that. Yeah.

730
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,560
So yeah I mean it's, it's drastically

731
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:48,720
more expensive in the US.

732
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:49,720
Other things.

733
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,240
Yeah I mean

734
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,680
like I said at the start, you know the

735
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,000
that CAT element, at the moment

736
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,520
there is only one

737
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:03,040
commercial ish scale wind farm,

738
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:04,800
I think it's five turbines.

739
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:05,840
And then

740
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,920
I think there's another one which,

741
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,000
which is pretty much up and running now

742
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,120
as well. But,

743
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:13,920
you know, looking at that long term

744
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:14,680
understanding of,

745
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,760
of how these turbines respond to,

746
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:19,800
you know, that,

747
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,400
those kinds of wind speeds, ones

748
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:22,920
that have been installed

749
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,720
so far have been, fine.

750
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,560
Thankfully.

751
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,120
But you know, that, again,

752
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:30,880
you know, from a

753
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,360
you don't get a stochastic event

754
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:33,120
set from,

755
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:34,480
from five years

756
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,360
of being installed or whatever it is.

757
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:37,880
So, you know,

758
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,400
it's really trying to understand that

759
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,520
the long term impact of,

760
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:43,040
the higher

761
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,280
category storms

762
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,120
and higher wind

763
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:45,840
speeds on

764
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,480
on the longevity of the turbines. Sure.

765
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:48,960
We've mentioned

766
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,440
the Jones Act a couple of times

767
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:51,600
that it's probably, Franco,

768
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:52,120
if you want to give

769
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:52,800
some background to.

770
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:53,280
Yeah, sure.

771
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:54,320
That is for people who may not know

772
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,680
or to be very well known to Adam.

773
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,080
But, what's interesting

774
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,040
is the vessel you mentioned,

775
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,040
the one Jones Act compliant vessel

776
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,800
that is under construction.

777
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,720
We've seen constant pushbacks

778
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,120
as to when that will be delivered.

779
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:07,720
It's looking like 2025

780
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:08,200
is the

781
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,080
is the most recent, published date.

782
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,160
So we'll see if that

783
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:13,440
if that's maintained.

784
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:14,480
But any event the Jones Act

785
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,600
just to give a little bit of flavour

786
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,520
to anybody who's listening,

787
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,160
who's not fully aware of that.

788
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,120
So it affects,

789
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:21,960
it's a piece of US legislation.

790
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,640
Or in fact, a number of pieces

791
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,360
of legislation

792
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:26,480
that collectively known as the Jones Act.

793
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,640
And effectively it,

794
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,520
limits trade between two fixed US points,

795
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,520
to US Jones Act compliant vessels.

796
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,040
And broadly that means,

797
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,880
that the vessel has to be US built,

798
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:40,680
which I think is probably

799
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,040
the most critical,

800
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,000
a category, but also US

801
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,000
crude, US flagged and then US owned.

802
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,240
And the issue there is

803
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,360
you can't just buy a vessel now and say,

804
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:53,560
we're going to make this vessel Jones Act compliant

805
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:54,360
because you'll fall

806
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:55,560
foul of the,

807
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:56,840
Jones Act requirement for the vessel

808
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,520
to be built in the US.

809
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,400
And the difficulty, I think, is that,

810
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:02,880
there's,

811
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,200
there are decisions from the US Customs

812
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,880
and Border Protection Agency,

813
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,920
which establish that every fixed turbine,

814
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,920
once installed, is a fixed US point,

815
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,480
which means that when you are,

816
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,560
transporting either,

817
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,480
per the Jones Act merchandise

818
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,800
or passengers from one US fixed points,

819
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:23,480
that could be a port

820
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:24,520
somewhere in the US

821
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,240
to a wind turbine in US waters.

822
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,680
That vessel has to be Jones Act compliant.

823
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,120
And of course, that's where there is

824
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:32,480
just not the tonnage to be able

825
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:33,960
to satisfy that at the moment.

826
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,840
So there is a workaround,

827
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:36,160
and that is

828
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:37,400
I think, as you mentioned earlier, Adam,

829
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,880
you either transport,

830
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,800
merchandise from other locations.

831
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,120
So you might go from Canada to,

832
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:46,200
your turbines

833
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,080
or you might use feeder barges.

834
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,160
And certainly

835
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:50,760
from an insurance perspective,

836
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,280
when you're making those kind of

837
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:53,520
equivalent of ship to ship

838
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:54,960
type transfers,

839
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,520
that adds another,

840
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,280
risk layer into the mix.

841
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,960
And of course, creates to put it no,

842
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,280
no higher than that,

843
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,080
inefficiencies in the process,

844
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,080
which must be reflected in the price.

845
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,680
I think it's also reflected in,

846
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:12,400
how slowly

847
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,840
some of these things are going in. Yes.

848
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:14,400
Well, right.

849
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:15,120
It's,

850
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,600
getting used to that.

851
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,440
You know, you've got to probably do it.

852
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:21,520
What,

853
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,120
three, four times

854
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:25,680
maybe for each turbine

855
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,160
with the foundation tower,

856
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:28,480
the cell.

857
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:29,600
So,

858
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,560
yeah, it does make the whole development time,

859
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,760
much more significant, which, you know,

860
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,400
renewables projects,

861
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,200
they tend to get

862
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,000
probably delayed more than oil and gas does.

863
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,000
Well, I think it's probably fair to say,

864
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,080
so, you know, just adding

865
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,080
that additional layer of complexity.

866
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:53,640
Essentially. Yeah.

867
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,160
It makes it, more complex.

868
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:56,760
Yeah. For sure.

869
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:57,960
That's put into context.

870
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,720
The US are looking at 30GW

871
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,320
installed by 2030.

872
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,880
And, you know, a project like

873
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,880
I think Hornsea Two is 1.65GW

874
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,680
and that's about 165 turbines.

875
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,480
So just thinking about that

876
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,320
sheer scale of upscale

877
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,680
that's required is significant.

878
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,240
Plenty to do before 2030

879
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,560
then to hit some of those targets.

880
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:21,000
Do some of those challenges

881
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,400
that we've been talking about mean

882
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,480
that insurers appetite

883
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,680
for those kind of US risk are diminishing,

884
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:27,000
or is this

885
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,000
still a strong appetite for them?

886
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,480
I wouldn't say it's diminishing.

887
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,600
No. I think,

888
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:34,240
you know, it's

889
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,640
it's more been about whether or not

890
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:37,440
some of those projects

891
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,480
would come to fruition.

892
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,640
I think, you know, it's

893
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,920
almost the other way around.

894
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,320
obviously we've seen certainly one

895
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,360
fairly high profile one

896
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,480
which ended up

897
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,480
not happening or getting withdrawn.

898
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:54,920
And certainly

899
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,000
there've been a couple of others

900
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,960
that have been at risk, high

901
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,400
profile ones as well, which of,

902
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,400
you know, had to renegotiate.

903
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,080
the Power Purchase Agreement.

904
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,720
Their PPA’s.

905
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,720
price, well, to be able to get enough income

906
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,880
to make the projects viable.

907
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:14,240
But yeah,

908
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,360
I mean, from,

909
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:18,120
from an insurer perspective, you know,

910
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:21,120
I think I think people are definitely

911
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,680
monitoring the cat exposure.

912
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,160
But, I think,

913
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,400
you know, from a general risk

914
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,200
point of view, I think, you know,

915
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,120
people are

916
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:29,920
people are happy

917
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,680
and keen to ride them from what

918
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:31,960
I've seen.

919
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,520
So we've discussed some of the issues

920
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,680
about vessel availability in the US.

921
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,920
But broadly speaking, elsewhere

922
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:38,800
vessels are available

923
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,800
and there's no similar pipeline issues.

924
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,160
I asked a very leading question.

925
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,480
Yeah. I mean,

926
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:47,760
you know,

927
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:48,840
vessel availability

928
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,320
definitely is an issue in most places.

929
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:53,960
Yeah.

930
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,400
You know, we've seen not just with the,

931
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,440
the delays to the one,

932
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,440
the that the Jones Act compliant one,

933
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,520
but also, you know, we've had issues with

934
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:07,880
other vessels

935
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,840
that were being newly built.

936
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:10,560
Yeah.

937
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,240
They've had to be

938
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,720
substituted out because, you know,

939
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,760
it would have put the whole project

940
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,440
back by a significant amount of time.

941
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,440
You know, if you're in

942
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,280
Asia, other than China,

943
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,960
certainly the, the remoteness of.

944
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,000
Yeah, some of those,

945
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,040
some of those places,

946
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,040
you know, that can add,

947
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,280
you know, a lot of time,

948
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,320
and also potentially

949
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,160
a lot of cost for mobilisation,

950
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,640
demobilisation if

951
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:43,920
you need to get

952
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,080
a specialist vessel

953
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,640
down there to do anything, really.

954
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:48,360
But one of the reasons

955
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,040
I knew that was a problem,

956
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,360
because I read your report,

957
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,600
we both read your report

958
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:52,520
with the Allianz report,

959
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,480
a turning point for offshore wind.

960
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,280
What would you say where the key?

961
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:57,880
Other

962
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,000
are there any key other issues

963
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,080
that came out of that report

964
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,080
that surprised you?

965
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:01,920
Perhaps?

966
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,000
That surprised me.

967
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:06,960
I wouldn't,

968
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,080
I wouldn't say to many, I think,

969
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:12,960
from my perspective, you would

970
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:13,960
you would maybe hope not.

971
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,160
But,

972
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,080
Yeah, I mean, I,

973
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,920
I think, you know, a lot of the things

974
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,640
we touched on in that were around,

975
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,600
you know,

976
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,680
there's a lot of growth planned

977
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,160
in a lot of different regions,

978
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,440
but certainly there are

979
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:32,400
significant challenges,

980
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,920
whether it's design, supply,

981
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,760
vessels, you know, all of those

982
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:38,600
key things.

983
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,600
But, you know, I guess recognising

984
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,360
the kind of the scale of

985
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,600
firstly the opportunity, but also,

986
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:48,560
you know,

987
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:49,400
some of the issues

988
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,640
that have to be addressed to make that

989
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,280
a reality.

990
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,680
So Adam another key point that was in

991
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:57,560
the Allianz report

992
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,000
was about cable claims

993
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,360
and in particular export

994
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:01,080
cable claims

995
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,360
being the biggest driver,

996
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,400
certainly by value.

997
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:06,880
are you seeing the

998
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,120
cable claims generally,

999
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,200
the cable market

1000
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:12,480
maturing in such a way

1001
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,560
that those claims maybe should lessen

1002
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,120
as time goes by?

1003
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,640
I mean, I think it depends on

1004
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,360
what scores to claim, right?

1005
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,160
You know, I think, you know,

1006
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,160
talking about marine warranty scope.

1007
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,440
Yeah.

1008
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,160
having that oversight

1009
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:33,080
over the installation

1010
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,080
process will certainly help.

1011
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:38,920
I think, you know,

1012
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:39,840
you'd be pushing it to say

1013
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,480
that it will disappear completely, right?

1014
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:42,800
Do you think

1015
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:43,840
the technology itself

1016
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,760
is improving to the design standards?

1017
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:48,960
Yeah, I mean,

1018
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:50,960
I think the cables are in use

1019
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,480
now that element of,

1020
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,560
the design side

1021
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,920
or those kinds of faults

1022
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,760
seem to be, you know,

1023
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:05,200
a bit

1024
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,440
less frequent,

1025
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:07,960
I think it's probably fair to say.

1026
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:11,600
But then,

1027
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,120
you know,

1028
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:12,640
with the

1029
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,000
bigger turbines or, you know,

1030
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,200
with the bigger wind farms,

1031
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:17,080
is that technology

1032
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,240
then going to have to move on? Yeah.

1033
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:19,760
You know, as

1034
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,280
far as kind of cable,

1035
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,280
kilovolt capacity goes,

1036
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:26,640
and then also, you know,

1037
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,280
the other thing is talking about

1038
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,240
going back to that supply

1039
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,160
chain question again,

1040
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:32,800
you know,

1041
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,400
new factories,

1042
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,040
you're going to have to have really tight

1043
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,640
control over the manufacturing, right?

1044
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,720
Because,

1045
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,040
you know, not necessarily people, but,

1046
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,520
you know, the equipment or,

1047
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,560
you know, the process, even the climate

1048
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:48,440
in where

1049
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,400
some of these places are located

1050
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:51,000
all of that stuff's

1051
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:51,760
going to impact

1052
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,280
the performance of the cable,

1053
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,560
you know, longer term

1054
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,840
so I think it's, you know, keeping

1055
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,840
that as tightly controlled as possible.

1056
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,520
Do you think that risk is exacerbated

1057
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,280
as these projects go deeper

1058
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:04,920
and further out?

1059
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,880
Certainly it will make,

1060
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,040
fill jointing a lot more challenging.

1061
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,440
Yes.

1062
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,000
Because, yeah, obviously,

1063
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,360
you know, you're going to have to

1064
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:18,200
get the cable up

1065
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,080
that's going to put

1066
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,440
probably a reasonable amount of tension

1067
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,320
on it anyway.

1068
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,320
I mean, even

1069
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,560
lays in deeper water, right?

1070
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:30,360
You know,

1071
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:30,840
you're going to have

1072
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,840
to be very careful about, you know, the,

1073
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,440
the bend radius of the, of the cable.

1074
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,200
So, so, yeah,

1075
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,880
I mean,

1076
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,960
you know, I think there is a decent

1077
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,680
still amount of near-shore activity

1078
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:50,640
that's, that's

1079
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,200
that we've got to go,

1080
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,040
but certainly into the future.

1081
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,040
If you're looking at,

1082
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,440
you know, West Coast US maybe,

1083
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,440
or somewhere where you've got,

1084
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,000
a much more significant

1085
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,440
drop off of, of shelf then,

1086
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,520
yeah for sure.

1087
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,080
Are cables going further out?

1088
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:12,720
Sounds like you're talking

1089
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:15,120
about floating offshore wind.

1090
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:15,520
Yes.

1091
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:16,080
And actually

1092
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,360
floating offshore wind obviously is

1093
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,080
what is the the Allianz report?

1094
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,160
Franco and I've also read the,

1095
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:21,880
Franco was involved,

1096
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,440
I think in the IEMA report

1097
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,080
that recently came out

1098
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,240
and that identified some,

1099
00:34:26,240 --> 00:34:27,200
some novel risks in

1100
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:28,800
relating to floating offshore wind

1101
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,360
and some crossover with more

1102
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:31,560
traditional marine risks.

1103
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:33,480
I think you mentioned you

1104
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,040
touched earlier on in the podcast

1105
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,040
about the lack of standardisation

1106
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,680
in floating offshore wind in particular.

1107
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:40,600
What do you think

1108
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,160
the offshore wind

1109
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:43,920
farms of the future will look like?

1110
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,680
What will they look like?

1111
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:46,080
Yeah.

1112
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,080
I mean, you know, I think,

1113
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,720
you know, floating is something

1114
00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:53,520
that's going to be needed,

1115
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,400
to meet some of those targets

1116
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:56,240
that we've been talking about.

1117
00:34:56,240 --> 00:34:58,800
Right?

1118
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,000
You know, you get

1119
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,000
you do get,

1120
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:03,680
wind speed,

1121
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:04,640
which is going to kind of

1122
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,360
give you a better yield.

1123
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,920
the further away from the land you go.

1124
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,200
And, you know, there just

1125
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,200
probably isn't enough,

1126
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,360
space on the, continental

1127
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,320
shelves of the continents,

1128
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:23,960
to be able to meet

1129
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,920
the demand just purely with fixed bottom.

1130
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,560
So, yeah, I think,

1131
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:29,520
you know, floating

1132
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,000
definitely is going to be important.

1133
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,960
But, you know, there are,

1134
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:36,120
there are a

1135
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,120
few elements that

1136
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,320
that need to be looked at.

1137
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:41,520
I think,

1138
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,640
as far as that, that technology goes.

1139
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,920
What was interesting,

1140
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,840
I would say the most interesting feature

1141
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,000
for me, looking at the,

1142
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,000
floating offshore wind

1143
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:52,560
for the purposes

1144
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,560
of researching the IEMA paper, was

1145
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,160
that existing turbine designs

1146
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,080
will be used for,

1147
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,760
for those floating projects.

1148
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,600
And so the new bit would be the what's

1149
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:05,920
known as the floater.

1150
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:06,520
And of course, there's

1151
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,520
no standardised design at the moment for

1152
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:10,560
any particular floater.

1153
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,400
They all seem to be very,

1154
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,520
project specific.

1155
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:15,200
But you're, so you're,

1156
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,520
you're taking an existing turbine design,

1157
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,720
placing it on a new novel designed,

1158
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:23,440
floating concept

1159
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:24,560
and what you're left is with

1160
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,480
is this kind of hybrid turbine

1161
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,120
that is half new floater and half new,

1162
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,040
existing turbine.

1163
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,040
And I just wonder what that does to,

1164
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,040
within the existing

1165
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,800
turbines, what it does to things like,

1166
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:39,840
the gearboxes

1167
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,520
if indeed the turbines have gearboxes

1168
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,520
I know some are direct drive,

1169
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:44,640
or the bearings

1170
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,160
or the housings and things like that.

1171
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,920
So that will be very interesting

1172
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:48,400
to see

1173
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,440
as even for mature turbine technology,

1174
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:53,320
to see how that copes with,

1175
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:54,960
being

1176
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,960
in a floating offshore environment.

1177
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,760
Yeah. I mean, I think,

1178
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:01,920
you know, even before

1179
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,360
you get on to that though, right?

1180
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,360
I think

1181
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,600
one of the, the big challenges

1182
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,600
with floating is,

1183
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,520
you know, being able to or not being able

1184
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:15,440
to at the moment

1185
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:16,680
do much

1186
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,680
in the way of in-situ, particularly,

1187
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,800
main component change outs.

1188
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,360
so everything's got to be towed.

1189
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:25,120
Yeah, exactly.

1190
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:25,640
That's what I mean.

1191
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,640
Yeah. Yeah.

1192
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,480
which and, you know,

1193
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,280
firstly, it's the cost to

1194
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,320
if you have,

1195
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:34,200
something that affects

1196
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,400
more than one turbine.

1197
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:36,760
That's, that's going to be a

1198
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:37,760
which we've seen before

1199
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,360
in offshore wind.

1200
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,000
Well, yeah, I mean you yeah.

1201
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,200
You see it with fix, right.

1202
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:44,280
You see it. Yeah.

1203
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,400
You know, often

1204
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:47,600
not as often as you used

1205
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,320
to, perhaps, but, having to,

1206
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:53,600
you know,

1207
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,520
uncouple the moorings, the cable,

1208
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,200
tow the individual foundation back in,

1209
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,320
depending on the design

1210
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:03,760
of the foundation,

1211
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:04,640
you know,

1212
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,240
what's the port availability

1213
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:07,440
like depending on the,

1214
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,440
the draft or what else is in there?

1215
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,560
so, yeah, I mean, I think, you know,

1216
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,120
one of the biggest things that will help,

1217
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,240
is some kind of in-situ,

1218
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:24,840
whether it's being able to

1219
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,360
lift the foundation out or something

1220
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,360
that attaches to the tower that can

1221
00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:33,040
be used,

1222
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,440
you know, so that you don't have

1223
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,440
to, floating,

1224
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,560
you know, the, the vessel and the turbine

1225
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,920
moving around, which obviously could

1226
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,880
create a bit of a disaster, but,

1227
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:47,000
Yeah.

1228
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,040
So some sort of in-situ,

1229
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,560
I'm very much looking forward to.

1230
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,440
The day that happens.

1231
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:54,880
Adam, one of the issues

1232
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,640
that was identified in the IEMA

1233
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,040
paper was what happens

1234
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,040
if a turbine becomes

1235
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:00,360
detached and floats off?

1236
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:00,640
Is that

1237
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:01,160
is that something

1238
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,640
that keeps you up at night or not

1239
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,200
something you particularly worried about?

1240
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,080
It doesn't yet.

1241
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,120
Whether or not it will,

1242
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,120
I mean, you know, it's

1243
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,840
something potentially foreseeable.

1244
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:16,680
I think, you know,

1245
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,680
the implication of it is, you know,

1246
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:21,360
result and damage.

1247
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,880
Right? Obviously.

1248
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,800
But then also, you know,

1249
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,240
if you're looking at anything with,

1250
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:29,280
because, you know, shared

1251
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,080
anchoring systems

1252
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,080
or something that are being,

1253
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:34,800
spoken about at least if not if

1254
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,600
not done yet.

1255
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,320
so, you know,

1256
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:38,400
if you lose one of those, you're

1257
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,080
potentially losing

1258
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,200
multiple turbines in one go.

1259
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,200
And then depending on which way the

1260
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:46,760
the wind and waves are at the time,

1261
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,120
you could be losing quite

1262
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,520
a few more potentially.

1263
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,760
So yeah, I

1264
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,360
mean, it's, it's something that,

1265
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,720
that certainly we're, we're looking at

1266
00:39:58,720 --> 00:39:59,400
I think

1267
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,400
also it does depend a bit on

1268
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,600
the foundation design as well. Right.

1269
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,600
If you've got like,

1270
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,360
a TLP type foundation,

1271
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:09,600
you know,

1272
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,840
you're going to have it's something like

1273
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:12,400
ten times

1274
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,160
the upwards force on the anchor.

1275
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,200
So you know that

1276
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,200
that potentially is maybe a bit more,

1277
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,960
at risk of something like that,

1278
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:23,800
just because of the

1279
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,800
the ground conditions you need.

1280
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,160
Yeah, I think probably

1281
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,160
traditionally more foundations are,

1282
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:35,640
going to be more prevalent though.

1283
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:36,720
So yeah,

1284
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:37,320
I think it's

1285
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,440
having a lot of focus on that.

1286
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,440
And I think, you know, we learnt,

1287
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,200
the hard way from,

1288
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,240
incidents in, in the oil and gas

1289
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:49,240
world about the importance of,

1290
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,080
of having the right,

1291
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,080
mooring and making sure your,

1292
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,240
your chain is inspected regularly.

1293
00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:59,520
You know, how that mooring is set up

1294
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,280
and having a good kind

1295
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:02,760
of risk management in place for that?

1296
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:04,920
and that will certainly help.

1297
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:05,480
Yeah, but

1298
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:06,840
but that that's another interesting,

1299
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,120
I think overlap between the knowledge

1300
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:10,920
that's already there in the oil and gas

1301
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,240
industry certainly

1302
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:14,400
and certainly amongst insurers who insure

1303
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,800
traditional oil and gas projects.

1304
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:17,720
That knowledge exists

1305
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:18,840
about mooring lines.

1306
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,480
This is not really brand

1307
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:21,680
new cutting edge technology.

1308
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,160
What's different is it's

1309
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:24,200
being used to

1310
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:24,960
to more

1311
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,960
a wind turbine as opposed to an FPSO.

1312
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,280
And I think I suppose a risk

1313
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:29,920
there is

1314
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,080
you've only got

1315
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,000
perhaps three mooring lines as opposed to

1316
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,720
countless mooring lines on a FPSO,

1317
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:38,080
so, it creates

1318
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,360
a slightly different risk

1319
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:40,960
profile from that perspective.

1320
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:41,880
Yeah.

1321
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,480
But also, I mean, you know, stabilising.

1322
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,040
A semi or a, or a

1323
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:51,160
effectively a vessel. Right.

1324
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,480
In a FPSO, relative to a,

1325
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,000
I don't know how much if

1326
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,680
you know, quite a few times smaller.

1327
00:41:58,680 --> 00:41:59,560
Yeah.

1328
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:00,480
Floating foundation

1329
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,240
and how that's going to be affected by

1330
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:05,520
maybe

1331
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:06,920
a lower

1332
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,520
wave height or wind speed,

1333
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,200
you know, compared to those.

1334
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,880
Yeah, big scale assets.

1335
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:13,560
So,

1336
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,480
you know, I mean, there certainly are

1337
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,480
things that you can take in and,

1338
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,640
you know, people are

1339
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,040
obviously putting a lot of focus

1340
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,400
on, on modeling all of these things

1341
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,800
and demos and all of those kinds of,

1342
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,840
all of those kinds of mitigants as well.

1343
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,360
Yeah, yeah.

1344
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:33,000
Adam, a mindful

1345
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:34,080
that we've been talking a lot

1346
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:34,560
about offshore

1347
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,280
wind in particular, but,

1348
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,600
how about solar or tidal?

1349
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,600
You see, many of those projects?

1350
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,680
Yeah, I mean, tidal,

1351
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,360
we've seen a few at the moment.

1352
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,600
They seem to be more kind

1353
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,320
of proof of concept type,

1354
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,120
or smaller scale.

1355
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,280
I think, you know, from,

1356
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,280
from looking at

1357
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:03,880
sort of the amount of things that have

1358
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,240
that have come across our desks

1359
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:07,680
there seems to be

1360
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,680
perhaps not as much going on,

1361
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,600
yet in, in that space.

1362
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:16,760
Yeah. And then

1363
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,080
solar, floating solar specifically.

1364
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:21,840
Obviously.

1365
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:22,680
Not floating solar.

1366
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,680
There is quite a bit of already.

1367
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,600
But yeah, I mean, you know, if you're,

1368
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,680
if you're talking about truly offshore

1369
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:33,720
there's again,

1370
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:35,040
there hasn't been a huge amount.

1371
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:36,840
I think,

1372
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,560
there's a, there's a

1373
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,840
big target for that in China.

1374
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,560
And I think the first,

1375
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,160
1 or 2,

1376
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,080
truly offshore,

1377
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,080
you know, floating solar farms

1378
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,800
are being planned or started,

1379
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:56,200
around about now.

1380
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,680
So, yeah.

1381
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,680
And, you know, we have had,

1382
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,160
solar on water just in,

1383
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,920
inland, you know, lakes,

1384
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,080
obviously there's, you know, less,

1385
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,200
from a, you know, waves and all of that

1386
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,320
kind of stuff, the saline part as well.

1387
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,280
And. Yeah.

1388
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,520
So, so yeah, there are certainly lessons

1389
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:23,920
that can be learned from that stuff,

1390
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:24,320
but they'll,

1391
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,640
they'll need to be adapted for,

1392
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:27,160
you know, the,

1393
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,280
the truly offshore environment

1394
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,160
where we're going to see them and wind.

1395
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:32,080
So wind very much

1396
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,080
is where the action remains.

1397
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:35,680
Yeah.

1398
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:36,480
I mean,

1399
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,640
I think so for, for now,

1400
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,760
I mean certainly offshore.

1401
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:41,280
Yeah.

1402
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:42,200
Yeah, yeah for sure.

1403
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,200
I mean I think

1404
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:46,240
yeah floating solar.

1405
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:48,880
We'll see how how that develops

1406
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,000
and tidal as well.

1407
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,040
But I think, you know,

1408
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,160
looking at the developments

1409
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:54,040
that are out there,

1410
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,040
you know,

1411
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:56,720
the vast majority of the growth

1412
00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:58,320
seems to be in offshore wind for.

1413
00:44:58,320 --> 00:44:59,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1414
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,800
And picking up on newer technologies

1415
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:02,200
as well.

1416
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:03,560
The power to X

1417
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:04,120
and hydrogen

1418
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,840
seem to be in the press at the moment.

1419
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:06,120
I wondered

1420
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,720
if there's any more recent developments

1421
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:08,520
in those technologies

1422
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,760
that you can tell us about?

1423
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,320
Yeah, I mean,

1424
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,120
those technologies have been

1425
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,160
spoken about a bit.

1426
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:17,120
I feel like,

1427
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:17,440
you know,

1428
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:17,840
in terms

1429
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,200
of actual developments,

1430
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,600
there's maybe a bit of a lag

1431
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,000
seems like we've been talking about them

1432
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,840
for a while now

1433
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,280
haven't seen too much,

1434
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:31,920
in the way of actually

1435
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,200
kind of full scale.

1436
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:36,800
Yeah.

1437
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,040
I mean, also, you know, the use, right?

1438
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,240
I mean, it's it's much easier for people

1439
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:44,400
to kind of,

1440
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,320
you know, electricity, obviously has.

1441
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,120
Yeah, far broader usage right now than,

1442
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,840
you know, hydrogen.

1443
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,640
Assuming the grid connections are there?

1444
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:57,600
Assuming they're there,

1445
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:58,920
which, you know, they're,

1446
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,920
they're not always.

1447
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,800
But yeah, I mean,

1448
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,800
you know, I think that,

1449
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:09,080
you know,

1450
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:09,960
those kinds of developments

1451
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,520
definitely are going to be important.

1452
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,520
But, you know, again, like, you know, at

1453
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,280
at scale, we haven't seen maybe

1454
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,640
as much, come to fruition yet.

1455
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,600
So I think that's certainly what

1456
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:24,640
what we're seeing

1457
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:25,680
from our kind of research

1458
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:26,840
perspective as well,

1459
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:27,600
is that

1460
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:28,720
lots of the discussions

1461
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:31,280
are about subsidies and tax credits

1462
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:32,560
that might be available

1463
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,840
for hydrogen in particular.

1464
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,120
And I think one of the most

1465
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,440
interesting developments,

1466
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:38,960
policy developments

1467
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,160
has been in relation to,

1468
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,080
what's known as additionality,

1469
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:44,320
which I think is very relevant

1470
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,760
to particularly green hydrogen.

1471
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,760
But then for offshore wind in particular,

1472
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:50,560
because,

1473
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,000
particularly in the EU

1474
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,640
now to have to gain hydrogen subsidy,

1475
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:58,280
you will need to demonstrate

1476
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,240
what's this additionality principle,

1477
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:01,160
and that is

1478
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,640
that you are adding to the grid

1479
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,720
or that you're adding to the,

1480
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:06,240
electricity generation.

1481
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:07,800
You are not taking that

1482
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,360
existing renewable

1483
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:10,360
power generation

1484
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,840
that would otherwise be used in the grid.

1485
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:13,960
You'll be taking that

1486
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:15,400
and using it

1487
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,720
for, say, production of hydrogen.

1488
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:20,280
So it's really interesting that

1489
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,040
the focus seems to be on trying

1490
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,440
to push projects down the route of

1491
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,400
if you're going to be producing hydrogen,

1492
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,080
you need to be creating your own

1493
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:28,920
wind farm

1494
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,920
or solar complex or whatever it might be.

1495
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,360
And that seems to also be helpful

1496
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,120
if there is a lack of grid connections,

1497
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:39,360
because there's another factor

1498
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,000
I noticed in your report Adam, or

1499
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,080
in the Allianz report about,

1500
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,320
just the the number of years often

1501
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:49,360
it takes for projects to get grid

1502
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,080
connection availability.

1503
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,080
Again, I think it varies, you know, from

1504
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,440
one jurisdiction to another.

1505
00:47:58,200 --> 00:47:59,480
I think,

1506
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,400
you know, in the UK

1507
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,040
we have kind of,

1508
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:06,960
what doesn't look to me at least to,

1509
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,960
to be the most perfect system.

1510
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,600
because, you know,

1511
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:13,560
the transmission is

1512
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:14,760
built by the developer.

1513
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:18,000
Has to be sold within 18 months.

1514
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,440
And you have all of these kind of

1515
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,440
individual developments,

1516
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,160
you know, building their own

1517
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:29,840
transmission. Yeah.

1518
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,760
Which, you know, if you live

1519
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,560
somewhere where there's

1520
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,480
a fair amount of offshore wind

1521
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:37,720
going in, it's

1522
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:39,840
probably not ideal to have.

1523
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,000
You know, your back garden dug up

1524
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:42,720
every five minutes

1525
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:43,960
for another export cable, right?

1526
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,960
Yeah. Say, for example,

1527
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:48,360
but but also, you know,

1528
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,520
in terms of timeline

1529
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,360
to bring the developments,

1530
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,360
you know, to, to life,

1531
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,000
you know, having to wait for permitting,

1532
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,000
having to, or even just having to wait for

1533
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:03,840
a new topside to be built.

1534
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:04,800
Yeah, yeah.

1535
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,960
Whereas, you know, other

1536
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,080
countries, you know

1537
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:11,040
I'm thinking like

1538
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,920
Germany, say, for example, or,

1539
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,920
you know, Belgium is another one where,

1540
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:17,600
you know,

1541
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,600
they have more of a grid strategy, right?

1542
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,040
Offshore. Okay.

1543
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,080
Which, you know, then you're plugging

1544
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,560
multiple farms into,

1545
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:32,440
that transmission.

1546
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,800
Yeah. Yeah. So you're not.

1547
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,320
Well, first of all, you know, you it's

1548
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:38,640
you could say more efficient, right.

1549
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,560
Because you're only having to do that

1550
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:41,200
work once.

1551
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,200
Maybe you're building a larger scale

1552
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,040
substation or whatever.

1553
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,560
But you know, you're,

1554
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,560
you're looking forward based on what

1555
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,080
developments you have coming up

1556
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,080
and you're not having to then have,

1557
00:49:58,080 --> 00:49:58,440
you know,

1558
00:49:58,440 --> 00:49:59,840
however many

1559
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,560
amounts of permitting, however,

1560
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,120
however long of construction

1561
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,120
and all of that for individual

1562
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,600
for individual, grid connection.

1563
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:10,320
There's a really good,

1564
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,280
explanation of this in The Economist,

1565
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,400
Technology Quarterly back in April 2023,

1566
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:18,760
where,

1567
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,040
a number of these issues were discussed.

1568
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:20,880
And one of the key issues

1569
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,560
I saw in particularly in relation

1570
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:23,640
to the UK

1571
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,840
was that you can apply for permits

1572
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,040
on a paper basis

1573
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,280
before there's any planning.

1574
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:30,960
And then

1575
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:31,880
application to then

1576
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,440
consider a first come, first serve basis.

1577
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:35,440
So it means that often

1578
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,040
the applications are backed up over

1579
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:39,720
many, many years.

1580
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:41,680
Some of which are in that queue

1581
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,280
where there's actually no plan to yet

1582
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:45,920
to bring those projects to fruition.

1583
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,920
So it seems like a wider strategy,

1584
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,920
is lacking in that, in that perspective.

1585
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:52,440
Yeah.

1586
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,440
I mean, I think it's something that,

1587
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,840
it's definitely up for review,

1588
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,400
I would say, or should be, right?

1589
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:02,760
I think, you know, we

1590
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:03,960
there are certainly things

1591
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:05,840
that could be learned from,

1592
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,400
from looking at how other people do it

1593
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,080
I would say.

1594
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:09,960
Adam, we've been talking a lot

1595
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,040
about the technology

1596
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,080
and of course, of the size

1597
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:14,640
of some of the new wind turbines.

1598
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,480
And we often see some of the comparisons

1599
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,000
about turbine size

1600
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,560
in comparison with Big Ben

1601
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:20,400
or the Eiffel Tower.

1602
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:22,200
Have you been on any

1603
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,440
particularly memorable site visits?

1604
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,200
Yeah, a couple, I would say, yeah.

1605
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,160
I think,

1606
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,160
visiting,

1607
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,200
a large windfarm development in

1608
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,200
East Coast, US.

1609
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,680
And seeing,

1610
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,440
the they were about 1200 ton.

1611
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:46,960
Just the foundation for the,

1612
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,800
the tower.

1613
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,040
Which, you know, that's some serious scale.

1614
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,040
Puts it into perspective? Yeah.

1615
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:54,840
You do,

1616
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,000
you do feel slightly nervous walking

1617
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,200
nearby or underneath them?

1618
00:51:58,200 --> 00:51:59,640
But,

1619
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,720
yeah, I mean, absolutely huge.

1620
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:01,960
Right?

1621
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,240
And that's for,

1622
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:05,720
obviously, you know, the, the larger

1623
00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:06,680
turbines, you know,

1624
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,680
if the, if the foundation is,

1625
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,000
is that size, you know, it, it

1626
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:13,560
it really does kind of

1627
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,080
open your eyes to it.

1628
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:16,680
Yeah.

1629
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:17,440
You know, tip height

1630
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:18,160
and how big

1631
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,160
the tower itself is going to be.

1632
00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:23,040
So yeah, that and certainly,

1633
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:23,440
you know,

1634
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,680
seeing I recently went to a floating,

1635
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,320
demo as well off the coast of Spain.

1636
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:32,120
So you've seen the,

1637
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:33,520
you've seen them up close,

1638
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,800
seeing it in the flesh or in the metal.

1639
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:36,080
Yeah.

1640
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,640
And, yeah,

1641
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:38,840
I mean, you know, cool

1642
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,240
to see something like that

1643
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:42,320
that we'd be done,

1644
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,240
been involved in for, for a while.

1645
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:47,640
actually,

1646
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,040
in, in-situ and, and,

1647
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:51,040
you know, really interesting

1648
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:52,440
to see

1649
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,480
how that, that floater design performs.

1650
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:57,080
You know,

1651
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:57,920
certainly it looked like

1652
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,000
it was moving around a lot less than.

1653
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:01,600
Okay. Interesting.

1654
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,960
Yeah. Okay. Interesting.

1655
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:05,600
which, which was great to see.

1656
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,400
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

1657
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:09,680
And. And, you?

1658
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:10,440
Well, I'm afraid

1659
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,760
mine is less exciting, but,

1660
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:16,080
one on one, very cold,

1661
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,240
wet and windy half term day,

1662
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:19,680
we found ourselves,

1663
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:21,560
looking for shelter on Brighton seafront

1664
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:22,800
and stumbled upon the Rampion

1665
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,040
and Wind Farm Visitor Centre,

1666
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,000
which was exceptional.

1667
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:28,640
We got a chance to put our VR

1668
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,000
goggles on and,

1669
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,680
traveled up the walked,

1670
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:32,880
walked or climbed up

1671
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:34,080
a turbine, stood

1672
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,800
on top of one of the turbines on Rampion Wind Farm

1673
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:37,240
We looked out,

1674
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:39,080
the most interesting

1675
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:39,480
thing for me

1676
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,160
was to look at a real dissected cable.

1677
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:43,320
I remember talking to my daughters

1678
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:44,360
about this cable and saying,

1679
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:45,800
you look at the different phases

1680
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:47,400
and look at,

1681
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:48,400
look at the components

1682
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,200
and how important the cables are.

1683
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:50,760
And I really thought

1684
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:51,440
they were taking it in

1685
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:52,400
until one of my daughters

1686
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,160
just looked up at me and said,

1687
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:55,640
can I have a snack?

1688
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,600
And that was that.

1689
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,080
So, Adam, it's pretty clear

1690
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:00,000
from some of the things

1691
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:00,920
we've been talking about

1692
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,520
that renewables,

1693
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:03,240
is going to be

1694
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:04,680
a very exciting place to go forward.

1695
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,320
So what would you say for anyone

1696
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:07,600
who's listening to this,

1697
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,280
is an aspiring renewables underwriter,

1698
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:10,160
what are the key skills

1699
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:11,160
that they're going to need to have?

1700
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,440
Yeah, I think, you know,

1701
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:16,440
first off,

1702
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,000
having an inquiring mind,

1703
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:19,680
I think it's really important.

1704
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,680
I think being able to,

1705
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:27,360
embrace and and understand

1706
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,480
new technologies and,

1707
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,480
moving into new geographical areas,

1708
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:35,800
and, and also,

1709
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,000
you know, just really having that kind of

1710
00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:42,800
desire to really, you know,

1711
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,080
help with enabling that, that transition

1712
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:47,960
that we're going through at the moment.

1713
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,920
Do you feel that you're part

1714
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:50,960
of that transition

1715
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:52,080
and part of that excitement

1716
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:53,280
that Biden spoke

1717
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:54,240
about in that quote

1718
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:57,040
that we had at the outset?

1719
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,920
Yeah, I mean, I, I actually genuinely

1720
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:00,960
do feel like that. Yeah.

1721
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,960
Because, you know, insurance

1722
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,560
for these projects is so vital.

1723
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,560
You know, there's a lot of,

1724
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,480
support from lenders a lot of the time.

1725
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,440
Yeah. You know, there is,

1726
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:18,560
you know, even putting

1727
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:19,280
that aside, it's

1728
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,600
a significant amount of investment.

1729
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,200
And, you know, without insurance,

1730
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,280
I feel like, you know, these projects

1731
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,640
wouldn't certainly be bankable as far as.

1732
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,400
Yeah, loans goes.

1733
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,360
But then also, you know, giving,

1734
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:38,520
the project the security

1735
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,520
to be able to deliver,

1736
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,440
what they need to,

1737
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:45,160
you know,

1738
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:45,800
in the event

1739
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:47,440
that something does go wrong,

1740
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:47,960
you know, they've,

1741
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:49,360
they've got,

1742
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,000
partners in, in the insurance market

1743
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,680
that they can rely on to help them

1744
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,400
if they have a problem.

1745
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,040
and, you know,

1746
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,960
also the fact that it is,

1747
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,960
you know, a technology and a a,

1748
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:09,040
area of development that so,

1749
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,520
you know, in that,

1750
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,760
that kind of discourse around

1751
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:15,480
climate and positivity

1752
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:16,480
and all of those things,

1753
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,000
that kind of go along with that,

1754
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,320
you know, I think that's really exciting.

1755
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:20,000
So, yeah.

1756
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,480
And any words of wisdom

1757
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:22,920
that someone maybe gave you at the start

1758
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:23,920
your career that you,

1759
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,320
you can remember? For me, I,

1760
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:26,360
I've been lucky enough to

1761
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:27,720
work with some very,

1762
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,000
knowledgeable people

1763
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,680
over the, over the years,

1764
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,400
hopefully have remembered some of, of,

1765
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:35,680
what they did.

1766
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,640
So, yeah, I mean,

1767
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,440
I think

1768
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,760
you can't always,

1769
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:44,400
have the perfect risk.

1770
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:45,400
You'd spend your whole life

1771
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:46,480
waiting for that, I think.

1772
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,760
So it's being able to understand,

1773
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:51,000
you know,

1774
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:54,000
what's imperfect about it, and and

1775
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,560
how you can make that work in, in a way

1776
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:58,600
that kind of,

1777
00:56:58,600 --> 00:56:59,280
you know,

1778
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,280
suits everybody as much as possible.

1779
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,760
I think, and,

1780
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:06,520
yeah,

1781
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:07,240
I guess

1782
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:07,800
the other thing,

1783
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,560
you know, that I always try to,

1784
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:12,760
that I always try to do is, is

1785
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:14,760
just be mindful of, of people. Right?

1786
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,720
I mean, it's at the end of the day, it's

1787
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,720
everybody is,

1788
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:21,320
trying to do the best they can, and

1789
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:22,840
it's, it's just being,

1790
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,920
understanding, empathetic and

1791
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:28,520
and trying to

1792
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:29,440
see things from,

1793
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,680
from as many perspectives as you can.

1794
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,680
Right. Yeah. To get to,

1795
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,000
something that works so,

1796
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,160
so in terms of wrapping

1797
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:40,320
everything up that we've discussed

1798
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:41,480
today, quite clearly,

1799
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:42,160
there are huge

1800
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:43,800
opportunities in relation

1801
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,920
to the very ambitious targets

1802
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:47,200
that are being set around the world

1803
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:48,480
for renewables,

1804
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,480
and particularly on the offshore side.

1805
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,880
and secondly, that is not to undermine

1806
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,400
many of the practical challenges

1807
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:57,360
that they quite clearly

1808
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,400
are that we've, discussed.

1809
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:00,720
But what's reassuring to know

1810
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:01,720
at least, is

1811
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,720
there are numerous insurance products,

1812
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,760
out there to assist in terms of that,

1813
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:09,120
that growth,

1814
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,120
as part of the energy transition.

1815
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:13,080
and the other thing that I think

1816
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:14,240
is really fascinating

1817
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:15,320
about the discussion we've had

1818
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,000
is there are, of course,

1819
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:21,120
many overlaps between, oil and gas and,

1820
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,440
traditional natural resources insurance,

1821
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:24,440
but also in terms of the

1822
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:25,600
how those projects are managed,

1823
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:26,760
how they run,

1824
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:28,920
but also in terms of perhaps

1825
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,040
marine and marine insurance as well.

1826
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:32,120
But then having said

1827
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:33,720
all of that, renewables

1828
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,080
now seems to be its own,

1829
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,280
very specialist area

1830
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:39,160
of which

1831
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:40,720
that real specialist

1832
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,480
knowledge is, is required.

1833
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:43,640
So on that basis,

1834
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:44,480
thank you very much,

1835
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:45,880
Adam, for joining us

1836
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:47,520
and passing on that knowledge.

1837
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:48,640
with us today. Yeah.

1838
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:49,560
Thanks for joining us.

1839
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:50,760
Thanks for having me.

1840
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,400
And thank you, Gary, also as well.

1841
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:53,040
Thank you.

1842
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:54,760
I thank you all very much for listening.

1843
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:55,720
It's been a real pleasure

1844
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:57,360
and we hope to catch up with you soon.

1845
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:58,000
Goodbye.

1846
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:01,080
Thank you for listening

1847
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:01,920
to Risk Matters,

1848
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,240
the DWF insurance podcast.

1849
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,560
We hope you join us again soon

1850
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,240
for future podcasts in our series.

Legal Services

Legal Operations

Business Services

Solutions

Commentary

Latest

Resources

Renewable energy and insurance: the challenges and opportunities

Listen to the podcast

Subscribe to Risk Matters via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

Audio Transcripts

Watch the video

Key contacts

Franco D'Andrea

Gary Walkling

Previous episodes

Further Reading

Legal Services

Legal Operations

Business Services

Solutions

Commentary

Latest

Resources

Legal Services

Legal Operations

Business Services

Solutions

Commentary

Latest

Resources

Renewable energy and insurance: the challenges and opportunities

Listen to the podcast

Subscribe to Risk Matters via Apple Podcasts and Spotify

Audio Transcripts

Watch the video

Key contacts

Franco D'Andrea

Gary Walkling

Related Sectors

Related Services

Previous episodes

Further Reading